Transcript
Dominique:
You're listening to The Sigrun Show, episode number 423. This is Dominique, Sigrun's content manager. Sigrun's sick today, but the show must go on, and she's prepared a great interview for you. I'm happy to introduce this week's guest, Laura Gale. Sigrun and Laura talk about how to leave a legacy with your book.
Each week, Sigrun goes live to share with you inspiring case studies and interviews to help you achieve your dreams and turn your passion into profits. Thank you for tuning in today. Building an online business takes time. Sigrun shares proven strategies to help you get there faster. You'll also learn how to master your mindset, uplevel your marketing, and succeed with masterminds.
Today's episode is an interview with Laura Gale. Laura helps entrepreneurs write, publish, and market books that transform their businesses and leave a legacy they're proud of. She has edited dozens of books and has ghostwritten over 15 books. She also ran publicity campaigns for authors like J.K. Rowling and Tina Fey, and is a bestselling author herself. In this episode, Sigrun and Laura talk about how to leave a legacy with your book.
But before we get started, did you know that if you leave a review for The Sigrun Show on Apple Podcasts, you get the chance to win an exclusive one-on-one coaching session with Sigrun? Go to the show notes at sigrun.com/423, where you will find instructions on how to participate in the giveaway and win a one-on-one with Sigrun or one of three book packages with her top five business books. You'll also find all the links to Laura Gale.
Sigrun:
I am so excited to be here with Laura Gale and talk about how to leave a legacy with your book. Now, that is a doozy subject. Welcome on the show, Laura.
Laura Gale:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm very pleased to be here.
Sigrun:
We have had several episodes around book writing. I guess it's an endless topic, really, and so many entrepreneurs want to write their book, but they don't do it. And you have a different angle to it; you say that a book… that maybe everyone needs to write a book to leave their legacy.
Laura Gale:
It's a very powerful way to do it, that's for sure. It definitely takes a lot of time and energy, but I think if you've got something important to say, there's not really a better way to get it out there.
Sigrun:
Before we get into that, how come you do what you do? Where does it… How does someone become a ghostwriter or a writing coach?
Laura Gale:
Well, I studied writing and publishing, I worked in a publishing house for several years, I've always been really into books, I've loved reading my whole life, and so it's a very natural fit for me. I think when you are very curious and get frustrated with doing the same things over and over again, becoming a writer is a really exciting option, because every project is different, every person that you work with is different, and so you get to learn a huge amount and see different lives up close, and I find that very exciting and very motivating. I mean, I sort of stumbled my way along; coming out of the publishing house, I got into content marketing and copywriting, and I thought, “No, I can do longer stuff, I want to do more in-depth stuff here,” so, ended up moving towards the ghostwriting, and I've been doing that ever since.
Sigrun:
When I think of legacy, I'm thinking of old people that are heading into retirement, and now they suddenly realize, “I want to have a book published, and it's my legacy project.” Do I got the picture completely wrong?
Laura Gale:
Not completely wrong; that's definitely one part of it. But I think your legacy can start much, much earlier than that. You don't have to wait until the end of your life to decide what the meaning of your life has been; you get to make that every day. And so, part of what I do is help people who have a really clear sense of what they're here to do and what they want to achieve to get that message out. The book is really a vessel for them to keep doing more and more of what they are really focused on. It's a way to open up new avenues to do more of the same, or to kind of expand their mission, and it's… Yeah, it's a good way just to kind of get your legacy underway while you still have lots of time to work on it.
Sigrun:
I like that idea. What is the youngest age that someone has written a book which you would call a legacy book?
Laura Gale:
Actually, I'm working on a book at the moment with a man who's 38, so… Oh, no, actually, I've done one younger than that; she was 29. She'd been working in a very high-end, very intense digital marketing agency and had a huge amount of success very young, and burnt out, and then kind of rediscovered what she wanted to do with those skills, and how to do that while balancing a healthy life. So, yeah, 29's pretty early to get started.
Sigrun:
Yes. Explain to me the difference between such a project… You know, if you really feel like, “Hey, I've got a mission, I've got a purpose in my life,” how is this book different from any other book, let's say nonfiction book, that an entrepreneur would want to write or have written for them?
Laura Gale:
So, the purpose of these books is very much to connect with your audience. It's really a way to sit down with them over several hours, which is not an opportunity that many of us get with our customers very often. And so, when you've written a book and it's very much about your story and what drives you, people spend several hours reading that and really get a sense of who you are. They get to trust you and understand what you're about and see themselves as part of your world. And so, when the time comes for them to take a next step to get involved with you, there's already that “know, like, trust” factor that we talk about so often in marketing, and so it's really, I think, one of the most effective ways to build a really long-lasting connection with the people that are going to help you do this work.
Sigrun:
But what about the ingredients of the book? Like, what is the difference between just writing a book about, let's say, my subject matter, versus actually something that leaves a bigger legacy?
Laura Gale:
I think books that are just about your subject matter are very important; there's always going to be a place for those. But I think this kind of book is very much about how you've done it, how you have brought your particular worldview and perspective and skills to this, and why the reader is better off with you than with somebody else. You know, it's really a way to differentiate yourself on a personal level, sort of shows a lot more of your personality and a lot more of what's unique about you. You know, if it's just the subject matter, often that's quite cut and dry. It might be very interesting, but you're not really in it. And for a lot of the people that I work with, they are a really key part of their brand, and so it's really important to get that personality and that kind of dynamic energy that they bring to their work into the book.
Sigrun:
But what if, imagine I'm in a bookstore, and there is a book, and I see a name of a person that I've never heard of, and next to that book, I see a subject matter like, you know, how to do something, and I'm like, “Oh, I want to learn how to do that,” so I will be feeling drawn to that book. How do you make sure that your legacy book becomes attractive enough that people actually want to buy it? Like, do you need to mix it? Can you mix your subject matter with your story?
Laura Gale:
Absolutely, and I think that's usually what's most effective for this type of book, because you want to empower the reader. You want them to go away feeling like, “Yes, I can do this. That person has told me their story, and so now I can imagine myself doing the same thing.” That's kind of the key differentiator, is this story component. Humans are very story-oriented creatures; we sort of tell ourselves stories, we orient ourselves in the world by the stories that we listen to, and so, having somebody show you the way through their own experiences is a very powerful learning tool.
So, the difference between “Here's how I did it, here's how my process went” and “Here's how you could do it the same way” is very different, and I think much more engaging than “Here's a list of steps to take” with no kind of personal element to it. So, I think that's where the key differentiation is, is that you can't imagine something that you've never been exposed to, right? You sort of have to know that it's possible to be able to see yourself doing the same thing or going the same way as somebody else. And so, yeah, I think that story component is where these type of books really shine.
Sigrun:
I've read several of, let's say, books that are maybe the first book an entrepreneur publishes, and they seem to weave their story in with their clients' successes somehow. They mix them together, so they don't just make it about themselves and what they have achieved, and teaching you some steps, so there seems to be taking the community or the audience you already have with you. Is that something you recommend, or is there a way to just make it about the person, or should you definitely include other people as well?
Laura Gale:
My preference is always to include other people, just because I tend to believe that most of us don't succeed in a vacuum. There are always other people that have been involved, and so, it's a lot more honest to tell the story involving those people. Even if you have helped those people and those are the stories that you're telling, it's important evidence to show that you're a legitimate person for the reader to follow. It's obviously great marketing, and it gives you, as well, multiple audiences that are going to read the book. So, if you're featuring your clients and they have audiences, then they're going to be quite motivated to say, “Hi, I was featured in this book. Would you like to read it?” It gives you a lot more reach that way, and so I think there's a lot of value in making sure that you do include some of those stories.
But also, it kind of proves your concept a little bit. There's repeatability, and if you come from the world of science, repeatability is everything. And I think we are very biased towards evidence and data; we want facts in our very kind of modern world. And so, to be able to show that you've done something over and over and that you've gotten great results every time, I think that's very powerful.
Sigrun:
So, you would recommend you have some other people in the story, maybe people that have helped you along the way, maybe not just your clients or your community. But what about if you write that book early on in your career, and then you feel like five years later, you have something more to say to your legacy? Can you write two legacy books?
Laura Gale:
Of course, of course. I mean, it's your story, right? You get to do what you want with it. And I think there's a lot of fear that if you write a book, you have to put everything in it all at once, you only get one shot at this, and it's just not the case. Everybody's career and life evolves over time; you're going to learn more stuff. And whether it's that you go back and revise the first book and just release a second edition, or you write a whole new book sharing everything that you've learned since then, I think that people are very excited about that. You know, if they've read your first book and gotten a good amount of value out of it, then they're going to be really pleased that there's a follow-up, because it means that obviously what you're doing is working, they get to feel like they've seen you on this journey, it gives them a sense of hope about what's possible. I think there's never a reason not to do a second book.
Sigrun:
But we talked about earlier that you cannot be too young or you cannot be too old to write a book like this, but I feel a lot of women, that they are often waiting for permission or being far enough, like, “Okay, I just started my business, it's too early.” “Oh, I've only been in business five years; it's probably too early for this book that is where I teach what I know.” That's probably a misconception too.
Laura Gale:
There's one group of people that I would advise to wait about writing their book, and those are people who are very, very early, I would say the first couple of years of their business, before they've got repeatable systems. So, if you're not clear on how you're getting revenue in the door, if you haven't got a consistent way to get leads and customers, and you're drowning in delivering what you've already processed, don't add a book to the mix, because it will just completely swamp you. It's a great way to get leads and to get people really keen to connect with you, but you've got to be ready. You know, you don't want all of these very excited people coming, and just being completely overwhelmed and not able to deliver what you've promised them. So, make sure you've got your processes in place and that you feel like you've got a bit of breathing room before you start.
But to your question, I think so many people really suffer from this imposter syndrome, and I think you're right, a lot of women really are in that place. There's so much that you know that other people just have no idea about, everything that has led you to where you are. Even if there are other people doing what you're doing, no one else has had the same experiences as you, no one else has had exactly the same results as you. And there are so many people wanting to learn from others and to broaden their possibilities and horizons that there's always going to be a market for your way of telling this story. I think we really discount what we know. We spend so long just immersed in it, and sort of… It just seems very common to us after you've done it for a long time. But to other people, that's completely fresh information, completely new perspective, and so, to sort of shut yourself off from the possibility that “I'm not the most famous,” or “I'm not the most highly qualified,” or “I'm not this or that,” is really to do a disservice to the people who need to hear from you.
Sigrun:
I love both angles that you shared here. On one hand, if you've just started your business, and you don't have it dialed down what you actually do and who you serve, and what purpose the book serves, then maybe wait with writing the book. I love it. And the second thing is, we don't need to wait forever. Once you've got those basics under control, just go ahead. You can still write a second and third book. Yeah. No, I think there is a lot of people that also start to write book too early. They come even to me in my programs and now want to build an online business and say, “Oh, I just need your help to sell my book,” and I'm like, “Oh, you did it wrong.” Isn't there a great help also, in getting the book out the door, that you actually have a community?
Laura Gale:
It's really important that you do have some momentum there, I think. Whenever I start a new project with a client, marketing is one of the first conversations we have, because I want them to be starting that before we have ever put a single word on a page. That's so, so critical to the success of the book. Getting the draft finished and getting it listed for publication, that is half of the process. The marketing, the launch, getting it out into the world, that's the other half, and you sort of have to manage your energy across both of those processes, because if you stop when you hit publication, it's just going to die, you know, it won't go anywhere. You really have to work to get the book out into the world.
And so, if you've been doing that for the entire process of getting the book done, you've had some time to build some momentum. You've had some time to prime your audience that this book is coming, to build pre-orders, to line up marketing, do podcasts, do interviews, do content marketing around it. There's so many things that you can do in… You know, if it takes four or six months, that's a lot of time to get assets built and to sort of get everything ready. And that way, you kind of launch knowing that you've got momentum built already; you're not trying to start from a dead stop. That's something that's just super, super important. Don't wait until publication day to start your marketing.
Sigrun:
Well, this is a very important point, because when people think of book writing, they're often just thinking about the actual writing. And you say half of it is marketing, and I love that you have this discussion before you even start to write. I feel this is a different approach, because I have spoken to a lot of writing coaches, and they're just trying to help you get the book out of your head onto paper, but you say, “Well, if we actually want someone to read the book, we should think about the marketing first.”
Laura Gale:
I think it's partly my responsibility in my role. You know, I'm not your cheapest option for having your book written, and I want you to get a return on your investment. I want you to be really happy about having worked with me, and part of that is the book selling. I also think you've put so much time and so much energy and so much of your resources into this project; obviously it's something that's really important to you. This message that you're trying to get out is really important. And for it to just disappear is just so sad to me, you know? I think so many amazing books have gone completely unnoticed because the author didn't know that it's not just going to sell itself.
Being such a lover of books and being in the entrepreneurial world, I just think there's so much information that we're missing, and that's such a shame. I think there's so many problems that can be solved by these little pockets of knowledge that are sort of all over the place. And so, I want those books to get their moment in the sun.
Sigrun:
Yeah. I read somewhere that most books sell less than 500 copies.
Laura Gale:
Isn't that devastating?
Sigrun:
That's horrible, for all that work of writing the book, and then almost nobody reads it.
Laura Gale:
Right, I mean, a typical business book might sell 2,000, if the author puts some effort into the promotion, but I just think… Don't get me wrong, 2,000 people reading your message, those are individual people. That's a lot of potential coverage and exposure and everything. It's not a zero number. But I do think there's so many people who are literate and reading and seeking knowledge that to stop at that point is to do yourself and the community at large a disservice.
Sigrun:
I have participated in several book launches as someone who's helping someone else promote. It's actually quite easy to get people to help you. Like, currently on my table are three books that I need to read in the next week, I think, because I've promised to support people. So, even if it's people that sell the same services as me, it's actually a lot easier to get someone to help you, so I think this is also a missed opportunity. Like, I don't remember or recall several years ago that I had so many books to read because I was helping someone promote. I think it's something people do more of now, but I also… You know, for someone who's doing their first book, this is something that people need to really, really consider.
Laura Gale:
Your personal network is just such an asset for promoting your book. Any time we get to launch, I always tell the author, “Email everybody you know by hand.” Don't send a mass email; invite each person who has an audience to read it, to share it. Provide them with whatever they need, but do it personally, because this book is important to you, and people get pitched all the time on sharing stuff and whatever. You want it to make them feel like it's something really important to them and that's going to be really beneficial to their audience. And if you put just a little bit more time and care into that approach, people are going to be very excited to support you. You know, it's great content for them, it's a real… It's an easy sell, right? Like, a book is not a massively high price point item. It's easy.
And so, I think, while it's a bit tedious and a little bit labor intensive, having that personal connection with people opens up a whole dialogue where ideas start to come in, and maybe there's a joint venture hidden in there, and maybe there's an affiliate deal over there. There's lots of little things that come up in these personal conversations that you would just miss if you just sort of blanket email everybody.
Sigrun:
I've also seen the importance of having someone basically read your book ahead of time, and then you can have a foreword, and then you also have all these snippets, relatively known people. How important that is in that marketing piece?
Laura Gale:
Well, going back to what you were saying previously about standing in a bookstore and comparing a how-to book to somebody's story, but you don't know who they are, if that personal story has the foreword from somebody whose name you recognize, that's going to help you pick that book up. And it's also, even if you don't recognize all of the names on the cover, other people have read this book. You're not the first one. You know, it's not such a risk, because other people have obviously looked at this and thought, “Yes, I'm willing to put my name on that.” So, I think it's a great credibility marker. It's not a deal-breaker if you don't have those, but I think it is ideal if you can get them.
Sigrun:
So, for someone listening and thinking, “Okay, I'm going to get started,” what's the next step? Should they start to book a meeting with someone like you, or should they start to write? You said before we start with the marketing. So, how do they start?
Laura Gale:
I think the most important thing is to understand what your intent for this book is. What's the strategic purpose of the book? How is it going to fit into the existing ecosystem of your marketing? And what do you want the reader to go away with? Who is the reader? All of these questions that we ask at the beginning of any other marketing campaign, you know, who's the avatar, what's the purpose of the campaign, those all need to be asked for this type of project as well. And so, if you get really clear on who you're trying to reach and what you want to leave them with, what you want to have them do next, that's really critical, foundational information to have.
Once you've got that, it's very easy to start working backwards and say, “Okay, if I want them to get to that outcome, what information needs to be in the book? Which stories need to be included?” What can be left out is also very important. But you can start to build a bit of an outline or a skeleton of the material so that, if you want to start writing, you're not staring at a blank page wondering where to go. Or, if you do want to work with somebody like me, you can go to them and say, “Here's a very clear idea of what I want to do,” and you don't have the false starts and the kind of misunderstandings and the dithering around at the start of the project that can really suck the momentum out of it. So, I think having those kind of strategic marketing questions answered, and a little bit of a sense of where you want the content to go, is a really great start.
Sigrun:
How does one decide whether to write it yourself or hire someone like yourself as a ghostwriter?
Laura Gale:
I think that really comes down to what your day-to-day like and what your skillset is like. So, if you are the CEO of a big company, and you have lots of employees, and you're in meetings all day, probably writing your own book is not the best use of your time. You know, you're hiring somebody to do your taxes; it's kind of the same thing, right? It's a very specialized skillset. The professional in that setting is going to know a whole bunch of stuff that you don't know, going to be able to do it a lot faster and much more efficiently. So, I think when you're very busy, and when you are wearing lots of hats, probably it's a great idea to have somebody help you.
If you are already a writer, if you love writing and you're comfortable in that mode, then I think it's great to do it yourself. It's a really satisfying process to have gone through the process of writing your own book. But, as I say, writing is a really specialized skillset, and people kind of think, “Well, I speak the language and I know how to type, so how hard can it be?” But it's a very specific way of thinking and way of working, and so… Because this book is going to be a representative of you out in the world, you want the vision you have for it in your mind to kind of match the end reality, and sometimes the best way to get that is to have a professional help you.
Sigrun:
It feels, whether you have someone write it for you or write it yourself, it feels like it's also a therapeutic process.
Laura Gale:
Very true, yes. Yes, I talk a lot about writing as therapy, and every project has a component of this, because business is hard, and entrepreneurship is hard, and you have struggled to get to where you've been, and things have happened along the way that were outside of your control and that maybe derailed you or took you much faster than you were planning to go. You know, there's so many things that happen along the way, and we often don't have time to process that stuff in real time. And so, when you have a space to sit down with somebody and start to sort of reflect on things, a lot of that stuff does kind of come up to the surface, and you sort of think, “Oh, wow, that's really important, actually.”
Sigrun:
Well, I want to write my book. I haven't written it yet. It's embarrassing. Yeah, I can be embarrassed here on my own podcast. I've said for years that I will write it, and I always find excuses. So, one day, I will make it happen, and I feel I should write it myself, but as you say, I'm quite busy, so who knows, maybe I'll go with a ghostwriter. But at least we know more now, and I definitely would like to write a book that leaves a legacy. Laura, it's been wonderful to chat to you today. We know a lot more how to do this now, and we'll link to your services in the show notes if someone wants to hire you and get your help to write their legacy book.
Laura Gale:
[inaudible 00:26:57] thank you so much. This has been lovely.
Dominique:
Go to the show notes at sigrun.com/423, where you will find instructions on how to participate in Sigrun's big giveaway and win amazing prizes. You'll also find all the links to Laura Gale.
Thank you for listening to The Sigrun Show. Did you enjoy this episode? Let Sigrun know that you listened by tagging her in your Insta Story or your Instagram post using her handle @sigruncom and the hashtag #sigrunshow. See you in the next episode.